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Newsgroups: comp.windows.misc,comp.answers,news.answers
Path: bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.media.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!newsfeed.rice.edu!nb.rockwell.com!wade
From: wade@nb.rockwell.com (Wade Guthrie)
Subject: (FAQ-Diffs) Portable GUI Development Kits
Message-ID: <PIGUI_FAQ_DIFF_765742186@nb.rockwell.com>
Followup-To: comp.windows.misc
Summary: This is the DIFFs between the current issue of the PIGUI FAQ
and the previous posting of the same FAQ.
Supersedes: <PIGUI_FAQ_DIFF_762455000@nb.rockwell.com>
Reply-To: wade@nb.rockwell.com
Organization: Rockwell International
References: <PIGUI_FAQ1_765742186@nb.rockwell.com> <PIGUI_FAQ2_765742186@nb.rockwell.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 18:09:59 GMT
Approved: news-answers-request@mit.edu
Expires: Sat, 21 May 1994 18:09:46 GMT
Lines: 588
Xref: bloom-beacon.mit.edu comp.windows.misc:2423 comp.answers:4811 news.answers:17791
Archive-name: portable-GUI-software/diff
Last-modified: Fri Nov 12 09:50:39 PST 1993
13,14c13,14
< Last-modified: Wed Feb 16 09:16:19 PST 1994
< Version: 1.7
---
> Last-modified: Tue Apr 5 10:45:27 PDT 1994
> Version: 1.8
42,43c42,43
< I've included some new software: SUIT (sort-of freeware) and
< ParcPlace's VisualWorks (a SmallTalk product).
---
> The FAQ has been reformatted a little with a better description of what
> a PIGUI is.
45,46c45
< Some things have been re-arranged, and I've included a (pretty lean, at
< this point) glossary.
---
> Finally, there're the usual product updates as they become available.
48,49d46
< Finally, there's the usual product updates as they become available.
<
51a49,64
> This posting is intended to shell-out as much information as I can find
> concerning platform-independent Graphical User Interface (PIGUI)
> development kits (actually, it's platform-independent APIs targeting
> various platform-DEPENDNET GUIs, but let's not get too picky). This
> list is being posted because I've seen a whole mess of requests for GUI
> portability information and, besides, I need this information as well.
>
> This document is maintained and periodically updated as a service to
> the net by Wade Guthrie (wade@nb.rockwell.com). Any corrections,
> updates, or other pertinent information are welcomed at that address.
> If you are a vendor of a PIGUI package (whether it's represented here
> or not), I encourage you to amend, annotate, and append to this
> document (and then, of course, send the revisions back to the author).
>
> IIa. Where to get this document.
>
55,56c68
< directory:
< /pub/usenet/comp.windows.misc.
---
> directory: /pub/usenet/comp.windows.misc.
61,67c73
< Now then, this posting is intended to shell-out as much information as
< I can find concerning platform-independent Graphical User Interface
< (PIGUI) development kits (actually, it's platform-independent APIs
< targeting various platform-DEPENDNET GUIs, but let's not get too
< picky). This list is being posted because I've seen a whole mess of
< requests for portability information and, besides, I need this
< information as well.
---
> IIb. What's a PIGUI?
69,74c75,80
< This document is maintained and periodically updated as a service to
< the net by Wade Guthrie (wade@nb.rockwell.com). Any corrections,
< updates, or other pertinent information are welcomed at that address.
< If you are a vendor of a PIGUI package (whether it's represented here
< or not), I encourage you to amend, annotate, and append to this
< document (and then, of course, send the revisions back to the author).
---
> A PIGUI toolkit is a software library that a programmer uses to produce
> GUI code for multiple computer systems. The toolkit presents an
> interface to the programmer (that's an API, son) in the form of
> function calls or objects which is independent of which GUI he's
> targeting. The toolkit does not necessarily provide any additional
> portability features.
75a82,129
> For example, programmer Petula Sniggly decides she wants to build the
> ultimate computer program. This thing is going to be so cool that
> everyone anywhere near a CPU will want to use it, so Petula targets her
> program for every type of computer on the planet. She considers
> getting herself a PIGUI toolkit to handle the GUI portion of her code.
> With a PIGUI toolkit, when she wants to put a menu on the screen, she
> calls the toolkit's "PIGUI_menu" function. When she compiles her code
> with the "Macintosh" flag set, the PIGUI library puts a Mac menu on the
> screen in response to the PIGUI_menu call. When she compiles her code
> with the "Motif" flag set, the call causes the library to put-up a
> Motif-style menu. All this happens (theoretically) without Petula
> having to change her source code. If she is careful to make her
> non-GUI code portable, she would have a single program (with a single
> source) that works on multiple platforms.
>
> There is no free lunch, so our heroine Petula has a few things to
> consider before deciding whether to use a PIGUI. First, most (and
> maybe 'all' depending on whom you believe) of the PIGUIs will slow the
> execution of your code. You are also limited to the feature set
> provided by the PIGUI unless you want to code around the toolkit (but,
> then again, why would you buy the PIGUI in the first place if you're
> going to code around it?). Bugs in any toolset (PIGUI or otherwise)
> filter down to your production code. Fewer people know how to code any
> specific PIGUI than do a platform-specific GUI (e.g., MS-Windows), so
> wizardly help will be limited. The PIGUI only deals with the GUI
> aspects of your program -- you're on your own for other portability
> issues. Finally, if the vendor goes out of business you may be
> out-of-luck for support of future OS enhancements (source code can
> ease, but not eliminate, the pain of a vendor closing its doors).
>
> IIc. A word about language choice.
>
> Many C programmers will look at the purchase of a PIGUI library as a
> great opportunity to migrate to C++. If the library takes full
> advantage of C++, the programmer will have to use C++ methodologies
> (not just a C++ compiler with C syntax) to use it. When one ports a C
> program to such a library, one should expect to invest a *significant*
> amount of effort learning about (and modifying his code to take
> advantage of) classes, inheritance, and constructors in order to
> complete the port. Of course, if one wants his C code to become C++
> code, this is a necessary exercise anyway.
>
> IId. What else is in this Document?
>
> After the introductory stuff, you'll find some more detailed
> information about PIGUIs in general followed by tables and prose that
> describe specific PIGUI toolkits.
>
93c147
< IIa. More Legal Barf.
---
> IIe. More Legal Barf.
96,98c150,155
< .sig) to say that this FAQ does *IN NO WAY* indicate, imply, infer,
< allude to, suggest, symbolize, hint at, or in any way have anything to
< do with the policies, suggestions, rules, or beliefs of my employer.
---
> .sig) to say that this FAQ is my personal work and that this FAQ does
> *IN NO WAY* indicate, reveal, imply, infer, allude to, display,
> suggest, symbolize, expose, demonstrate, hint at, or in any way have
> anything to do with the thoughts, policies, suggestions, reflections,
> decisions, theories, sentiments, ponderings, rules, dreams, or beliefs
> of my employer.
111c168
< IIb. Glossary.
---
> IIf. Glossary.
119c176
< classes.
---
> objects.
121c178,181
< COSE <what does this stand for?> This is the industry-agreed-
---
> CDE The GUI part of COSE (q.v.) is CDE, the Common Desktop
> Environment.
>
> COSE Common Open Software Environment. This is the industry-agreed-
128c188
< the curses package.
---
> the public-domain curses package.
151,152c211,212
< way separate processes under an operating system talk to
< each other.
---
> way separate processes (or tasks) under an operating system
> talk to each other.
154c214,217
< MDI Microsoft Windows' Multiple Document Interface.
---
> MDI rent
> window is intended to be the main window of an application
> and MDI child windows represent separate documents or
> sessions (or whatever) under that application.
156,159c219,222
< Motif This is a look-and-feel under the X Window system. In order
< to have one's software certified as Motif compliant (and he
< has to in order to use the name 'Motif'), one must pay a fee
< to <whom>.
---
> Motif This is one of the choices of look-and-feel under the X
> Window system. In order to have one's software certified as
> Motif compliant, one must pay a fee to the Open Software
> Foundation (OSF).
161,163c224,226
< OpenLook This is a look-and-feel under the X Window system. It was
< originally championed by Sun Microsystems before they
< agreed to support COSE (q.v.).
---
> OpenLook This is one of the choices of look-and-feel under the X
> Window system. It was originally championed by Sun
> Microsystems before they agreed to support COSE (q.v.).
168c231,232
< PM OS/2's Presentation Manager.
---
> PIGUI Platform-Independent Graphical User Interface. Actually, it
> refers to a platform-independent API (q.v.).
169a234,235
> PM OS/2's Presentation Manager. This is the GUI under OS/2.
>
176a243,248
> Unicode This is an international (16-bits per character) character
> set in which all the characters from the various supported
> international languages co-exist at once. Among the
> supported character sets is the English alphabet (is there
> a more proper term?), Hebrew, and kanji.
>
180c252,254
< using that package.
---
> using that package. Most WYSIWYG software is really
> WYSISWYG (pronounced Wizzy-Swig) -- What you see is sort-of
> what you get.
304,308c378,382
< - Tables are annotated, where appropriate, with letters in
< parenthesis. The appropriate notes are found below the
< table. Also note that as information changes, some of
< the notes will disappear. The note letters will not
< necessarily be in sequence -- get used to it.
---
> - Tables are annotated, where appropriate, with letters (in
> parenthesis where it doesn't take-up too much room). The
> appropriate notes are found below the table. Also note that as
> information changes, some of the notes will disappear. The note
> letters will not necessarily be in sequence -- get used to it.
348,353c422,428
< Vendor ASCII DOS Win(s) Win/NT OS/2 Motif OpenLook Mac PenOS
< ------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
< App(d) . soon yes soon soon yes - yes -
< Aspect yes yes 1495 . . 2495 yes 1495 .
< Views - soon 749 soon 995 1999 - yes .
< CLIM . . . . . yes yes soon .
---
> Open- Next-
> Vendor ASCII DOS Win(s) Win/NT OS/2 Motif Look Mac PenOS Step
> ------- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> App(d) . soon yes soon soon yes - yes - .
> Aspect yes yes 1495 . . 2495 yes 1495 . .
> Views - soon 749 soon 995 1999 - yes . .
> CLIM . . . . . yes yes soon . .
355,358c430,433
< CommonV . . yes . yes yes soon soon .
< Galaxy - - 7800 soon 9600 (m) (m) 9600 -
< Guild - - 895 895 895 soon - 895 -
< JAM yes yes yes . . yes yes . .
---
> CommonV . . yes . yes yes soon soon . .
> Galaxy - - 7800 soon 9600 (m) (m) 9600 - .
> Guild - - 895 895 895 soon - 895 - .
> JAM yes yes yes . . yes yes . . .
360,363c435,438
< libWxm - - (h) (h) (v) yes - (v) -
< MAINWin - - (h) (h) (v) 5000 - (v) -
< Menuet - 499 599 - 599 999 - . yes
< MEWEL 1595 395(u) (h) (h) 795 - - (v) -
---
> libWxm - - (h) (h) (v) yes - (v) - .
> MAINWin - - (h) (h) (v) 5000 - (v) - .
> Menuet - 499 599 - 599 999 - . yes .
> MEWEL 1595 395u (h) (h) 795 - - (v) - .
365,368c440,443
< ObViews - - yes yes . yes - yes -
< OI yes yes 5800 6850 6850 9850 9850 4800 .
< Opus . 695 695 . soon 695 695 695 .
< OpenUI yes - 3500 soon 4900 7900(g) - 3500 (w)
---
> ObViews - - yes yes . yes - yes - .
> OI yes yes 5800 6850 6850 9850 9850 4800 . .
> Opus . 695 695 . soon 695 695 695 . .
> OpenUI yes - 3500 soon 4900 7900g - 3500 (w) .
370,372c445,447
< PSM . . yes . . yes . soon .
< StarVie - - 499 soon 495 soon soon soon .
< SUIT . (k) (k) . . (k) (k) (k) .
---
> PSM . . yes . . yes . soon . .
> StarVie - - 499 soon 495 soon soon soon . .
> SUIT . (k) (k) . . (k) (k) (k) . .
374,376c449,451
< VisWork . . 2995 . 2995 4995 4995 2995 .
< Wind/U - - (h) (h) (v) yes - (v) -
< wxWind soon - free soon - free free - -
---
> VisWork . . 2995 . 2995 4995 4995 2995 . .
> Wind/U - - (h) (h) (v) yes - (v) - .
> wxWind soon - free soon - free free - - .
378,382c453,458
< XVT(c) 4400(a) 1450 1450 4400(ab) 1450 4400(a) 4400 1450 .
< zApp - 495 495 495 695 soon - soon -
< Zinc 1499 99(e) 299(ef) 299(ef) 299(e) 1499(e) - 299(ej) 299(er)
< ------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
< Vendor ASCII DOS Win(s) Win/NT OS/2 Motif OpenLook Mac PenOS
---
> XVT(c) 4400a 1450 1450 4400ab 1450 4400a 4400 1450 . .
> zApp - 495 495 495 695 soon - soon - .
> Zinc(e) 1499e 299e 299(f) 299(f) 299e 1499 - 299ej 299 .
> ------- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vendor ASCII DOS Win(s) Win/NT OS/2 Motif Open- Mac PenOS Next-
> Look Step
394c470
< $495. After this price, the individual GUIs to be supported are
---
> $499. After this price, the individual GUIs to be supported are
405,406d480
< (r) You need to have the DOS/MS-Windows key in addition to the Zinc
< Engine.
412a487,488
> (x) That's OpenLook.
> (y) That's NextStep.
430c506
< ------- -------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> ------- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
437c513
< Galaxy emulate (d) (e) no C++ yes
---
> Galaxy emulate (d) (e) no C/C++ yes
446c522
< ObViews . . . no C++ .
---
> ObViews layered . . no C++ .
460c536
< zApp layered 60 free no C++ yes
---
> zApp layered 60 free no C++ $499
462c538
< -----------
---
> ------- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
472c548,549
< Not sure what the pricing is.
---
> Not sure what the pricing is. They also require a 1 week, $2500 course
> they require you to take to get an evaluation.
533,534c610,611
< . . . . . . . . . . . . . . - . . . . . . . . y . 16-bit DOS Extender
< . . . . . . . . . c . c . . - . . . . . . . . - . 32-bit DOS Extender
---
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . - . . . . . . . . y c 16-bit DOS Extender
> . . . . . . . . . c . c . . - . . . . . . . . - c 32-bit DOS Extender
536,537c613,614
< - c - . . - . . . . - c - . y . - . . . . p y . . ASCII Text
< c c y . c c c . e c e e c c y c c c c c e c c c y MS-Windows 3.x
---
> - c - . . - . . . . - c - . y . - . . . . p y . c ASCII Text
> c c y . c y c . e c e e c c y c c c c c e c c c y MS-Windows 3.x 16-bit
539c616
< . . . . . . . . . . - . . . p . b . . . . . . . . Macintosh PowerPC
---
> . . . . . . . . . . - . . . p . b . . . . . . . p Macintosh PowerPC
542,543c619,620
< p . p . . b c . . . c p c c b . c . . . . b c c c 80x86 / Windows NT
< p . p . . b . . . . c p . c - . c . . . . - c . . Alpha / Windows NT
---
> p . p . . y c . . . c p c c b . c . . . . b c c c 80x86 / Windows NT
> p . p . . b . . . . c p . c - . c . . . . - c . p Alpha / Windows NT
546,547c623,624
< - c - . b c . . . . - - . c - . c c c c . c c . . SunOS / OpenLook
< c c c . . c b . c . c - . . c . c c . . y c c y c SunOS / Motif
---
> - c - . b y . . . . - - . c - . c c c c . c c . - SunOS / OpenLook
> c c c . . y b . c . c - . . c . c c . . y c c y c SunOS / Motif
549c626
< c . - . . c . . . . p - . c c . p . c . . c . . . ULTRIX / Motif
---
> c . - . . y . . . . p - . c c . p . c . . c . . . ULTRIX / Motif
551c628
< p c c . . . . . . . p - . c c c p . . . . c c y . SCO Unix/Xenix / Motif
---
> p c c . . . . . . . p - . c c c p . . . . c c y c SCO Unix/Xenix / Motif
553,556c630,633
< c c c . . c . . c . c - . c c . p c c . y c c y c HP 9000 / Motif
< p c p . . c . . c . c - . c c . c c c . y c c y b IBM RS 6000 / Motif
< p c p . . y . . . . p - . c c . p . . . p . c . . Vax VMS
< p c - . . c . . c . c - . c - . p c . . y y c p b Silicon Graphics
---
> c c c . . y . . c . c - . c c . p c c . y c c y c HP 9000 / Motif
> p c p . . y . . c . c - . c c . c c c . y c c y c IBM RS-6000 / Motif
> p c p . . y . . . . p - . c c . p . . . p . c . p Vax VMS
> p c - . . c . . c . c - . c - . p c . . y y c c c Silicon Graphics
563c640
< ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> ------- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
565c642
< Aspect ? ...-.... . . . . . $200-$800/yr
---
> Aspect ? ? . . . . . $200-$800/yr
569,572c646,649
< CommonV (a) ...-.... . . . . . -
< Galaxy none 832-8668 no no yes yes . $1,995/yr
< Guild 90d ...-.... . . . . . $100/month
< JAM . ...-.... . . . . . .
---
> CommonV (a) ? . . . . . -
> Galaxy none yes no no yes yes (k) $1,995/yr
> Guild 90d ? . . . . . $100/month
> JAM . ? . . . . . .
574,576c651,653
< libWxm . ...-.... . . . . . .
< MAINWin 1 year MAIN-WIN . . yes . . $1000/yr(e)
< Menuet . ...-.... . . . . . .
---
> libWxm . ? . . . . . .
> MAINWin 1 year yes . . yes . . $1000/yr(e)
> Menuet . ? . . . . . .
579,581c656,658
< ObViews . ...-.... . . . . . .
< OI . ...-.... yes . . yes . $1200-$2400/yr
< Opus . ...-.... . . . . . -
---
> ObViews . ? . . . . . yes
> OI . ? yes . . yes . $1200-$2400/yr
> Opus . ? . . . . . -
584,585c661,662
< PSM . ...-.... . . . . . -
< StarVie . 888-8527 yes yes no yes . -
---
> PSM . ? . . . . . -
> StarVie . yes yes yes no yes . -
588c665
< VisWork (f) 253-3415 yes yes (g) . . $675/yr
---
> VisWork (f) yes yes yes (g) . . $675/yr
592c669
< XVT 1 year ...-.... yes yes yes . . (call)
---
> XVT 1 year ? yes yes yes . . (call)
594,595c671,672
< Zinc forever no yes yes yes yes . -
< ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> Zinc forever no yes yes yes yes . $499/yr(j)
> ------- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
611a689,690
> (j) This is for their higher-end support. Simple support still comes for free.
> (k) They support an email mailing list (I've heard it's quite active).
14,15c14,15
< Last-modified: Wed Feb 16 09:16:19 PST 1994
< Version: 1.7
---
> Last-modified: Wed Mar 2 13:52:30 PST 1994
> Version: 1.8
63c63
< The AppWare Foundation software consists of a dynamic and static
---
> The AppWare Foundation software consists of dynamic and static
273c273
< than merely absolute position on the screen). Also, errors are
---
> than merely by absolute position on the screen). Also, errors are
310c310,314
< etc. [...] We have had good results with it so far."
---
> etc. [...] We have had good results with it so far." Another user
> agrees, "I've been using their software for almost 2 years now
> and I love it", adding, "I lead a project that had > 80K lines of
> C / C++ that had less than 100 lines defferent between the SunOS
> and MS-Windows versions."
323c327
< this FAQ going. I think that this could be indicative of
---
> this FAQ going. I think that this could be indicative of seriously
546a551,553
> Open Interface is an emulated GUI, that attempts to superset the
> features from the various GUIs they support.
>
550,552c557
< Hewlett- Packard, and AT&T). The questions are whether you can
< afford their prices and whether a less expensive product will do
< the job for you.
---
> Hewlett- Packard, and AT&T).
554,556d558
< Open Interface is an emulated GUI, that attempts to superset the
< features from the various GUIs they support.
<
568,571c570,573
< However, one user cautions, "I recommend doing development on a
< UNIX box or a Mac with this tool. The person using our windows
< copy has had some problems with ND corrupting its own data files
< and/or crashing windows."
---
> However, one user cautions, "I [only] recommend doing development
> on a UNIX box or a Mac with this tool. The person using our [MS]
> windows copy has had some problems with ND corrupting its own data
> files and/or crashing windows."
591a594,596
> SUPPORT:
> One hour free. After that, it costs (I'm not sure how much).
>
658c663
< StarView 2.0
---
> StarView 2.1
679,680c684,686
< states, this makes a lot of sense), full printer support,
< and drag&drop support.
---
> states, this makes a lot of sense), full printer support (including
> page preview), and drag&drop support. They claim to provide
> cross-platform OLE 1.0 support (not sure how they do this).
713c719
< one good tech support guy, Andreas (and he IS really helpful). You
---
> one good tech support guy, Andreas [and he IS really helpful]. You
868c874,876
< brushes, etc.
---
> all of that, it includes IPC
> features that includes MS-Windows DDE support. A CURSES version
> is in alpha.
893,895c901,903
< Better clipboard support, widget management (similar to Motif),
< automated GUI testing facilities, DevGuide to wxWindows utility,
< and a text-only version.
---
> Widget management (similar to Motif), automated GUI testing
> facilities, their own GUI builder, and a MS-Windows
> .rc-to-wxWindows converter,
933c941,943
< the two are not compatible. Stay tuned. . .
---
> the two are not compatible.
>
> I kinda' wish XVT would get back to me on this. . .
1003c1013,1014
< Object/Designer $499 (is this a GUI builder?)
---
> Their GUI builder, called Object/Designer, is offered as an
> aftermarket product for $499.
1009c1020
< Mac & Motif support.
---
> Mac & Motif support. DDE support under Unix/Motif.
1050,1053c1061,1064
< extra bux), some container classes, and filesystem portability.
< They also allow you to incorporate platform-specific stuff (e.g.,
< system messages) into their API; but, of course, you're on your own
< when it comes to porting any additions.
---
> extra bux) and some container classes. They also allow you to
> incorporate platform-specific stuff (e.g., system messages) into
> their API; but, of course, you're on your own when it comes to
> porting any additions.
1055,1057c1066,1069
< The software comes with 3 manuals. They have the Programmers
< Reference Guide (766 pp), Programming Techniques (414 pp), and
< the Programmer's Guide (154 pp).
---
> The software comes with 4 manuals. They have the Programmers
> Reference Guide (766 pp), Programming Techniques (414 pp), the
> Programmer's Guide (154 pp), and the Internationalization
> Guide (158 pages).
1058a1071,1076
> OPTIONS:
> They'll provide Unicode at extra cost (price, unspecified).
> Additionally, they provide a video training series (this gives lots
> of Zinc internals detail, but not a lot of relief for the novice
> programmer) for $499.
>
1068,1076d1085
< Keep in mind that this is a true C++ product. That is, one
< must use C++ methodologies (not just a C++ compiler with C
< syntax) to use it. If you are porting a C program to use Zinc,
< expect to invest a significant amount of effort learning about
< (and modifying your code to take advantage of) classes,
< inheritance, and constructors in order to complete the port.
< Of course, if you want your code to become C++ code, this is
< probably not a bad exercise anyway.
<
1078,1081c1087,1101
< Macintosh (which is now in pre-release) support and the utilization
< of the native help system. Additional things I've heard is better
< user support and better graphics capability. They also plan to
< enhance the Zinc Designer to provide additional flexibility.
---
> Macintosh (which is now in pre-release) support, the utilization of
> the native help system, and improved graphics support. They also
> plan to add several new classes including ones for printing, window
> geometry, index tabs, status bars, sliders, and spinners.
>
> Zinc has big plans for their Designer (their GUI builder) targeted,
> it seems, to provide a comfortable GUI design environment for
> non-programmers. Their plans include easing the addition of
> user-defined widgets to the designer, parallelizing the
> main-design-screen/image-editor/help-editor, and replacing flag
> names with more user-friendly english descriptions.
>
> Word has it that they're completely rewriting their manuals (and
> the crowd goes wild...) to reduce the learning curve associated
> with this product.
--
Wade Guthrie | "They couldn't hit an *elephant* at this
wade@nb.rockwell.com | dis...", last words of Mjr. Gen. (?)
I don't speak for Rockwell. | Sedgewick, American Civil War.